: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin ---catholic answers forum

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#1     Jan 14, '13, 6:22 am

yellow8yellowM Junior Member   Join Date: October 17, 2011 Posts: 265 Religion: Catholic

Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin I have encountered this: People who think they will go to heaven, or have a great amount of hope that they will get into heaven, even when they perpetually commit the same mortal sin. These are Catholics who are catechized well enough to know it is a mortal sin they are committing, but not catechized enough to know this isn't how it's supposed to work. Their response to any conversation in this matter always ends up with them believing in God's infinite mercy and that He will understand why it was okay for them to commit the sin. How might you approach this?

#2     Jan 14, '13, 6:37 am

Tighty Whitey Junior Member   Join Date: December 7, 2010 Location: Florida near the mouse. Posts: 444 Religion: Catholic

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin This is a great question and one I'm very interested in following to see the responses. One thought that comes to mind is questioning the certainty of knowing that the person perpetually commits the same mortal sin. For example a person might be a kleptomaniac thus they habitually steal, therefore the criteria for mortal sin might not be satisfied. Additionally there are so many many ways to commit mortal sin, (missing a Holy Day of Obligation, Lustful thoughts, pride that one is not guilty of committing a mortal sin, receiving Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin, etc.), that it seems almost inevitable that nearly everyone is going to die in a state of mortal sin. I belong to a parish that has nearly 3,500 families. On any given Saturday when Reconcilliation is offered there may be 20 people in line. All in all, it doesn't look good for nearly all of us. __________________ Groucho Marx The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that you've got it made. Matt. 5:44 But I say to you: Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. And pray for those who persecute and slander you.

#3     Jan 14, '13, 7:07 am

alwayslooking Junior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 5, 2011 Location: Belleville, IL Posts: 218 Religion: Latin Rite Catholic

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin I have posed this questions to priests before at adult catechism classes. It does seem almost inevitable that all of us will die in a state or mortal sin. From what I've been told by priests and have read; sometimes an act may on the surface be a mortal sin, but if the sin is committed because of a mental disorder like addiction the person may genially want to stop, but can't. If sin is committed under this circumstance the sin does not fulfill the requirement of turning one's back on God. I suppose only the person and God would know if the sin, in this case, is mortal. __________________ Knights of Columbus, 3rd Degree Member of The Confraternity of the Most Holy Rosary Member of The Association of the Miraculous Medal

#4     Jan 14, '13, 7:14 am

yellow8yellowM Junior Member   Join Date: October 17, 2011 Posts: 265 Religion: Catholic

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin Quote: Originally Posted by Tighty Whitey ...that it seems almost inevitable that nearly everyone is going to die in a state of mortal sin. Quote: Originally Posted by alwayslooking ...It does seem almost inevitable that all of us will die in a state or mortal sin. I do not want this thread to digress into a "what is a mortal sin" thread, so I will quickly respond to these first two replies. It is certainly not inevitable that everyone will die in the state of mortal sin. To commit a mortal sin you have to know you are committing it and continue to commit it. You have to say to yourself, "I am going to commit this grave sin even though I know God forbids it." There is a lot of free will involved. I kindly beg you to please start a new thread if you want to continue this discussion.

#5     Jan 14, '13, 8:00 am

dailey Regular Member   Join Date: July 19, 2010 Posts: 1,074 Religion: catholic

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin Quote: Originally Posted by yellow8yellowM I have encountered this: People who think they will go to heaven, or have a great amount of hope that they will get into heaven, even when they perpetually commit the same mortal sin. These are Catholics who are catechized well enough to know it is a mortal sin they are committing, but not catechized enough to know this isn't how it's supposed to work. Their response to any conversation in this matter always ends up with them believing in God's infinite mercy and that He will understand why it was okay for them to commit the sin. How might you approach this? I think you have pretty much described 90% of Catholics. __________________ Padre Pio once said, ‘without the Grace of God, all I know how to do is to sin and sin again.’

#6     Jan 14, '13, 8:39 am

TheRealJuliane Senior Member   Join Date: October 11, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 16,503 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin Isn't this called "presumption?" To presume that God will have mercy on you even though you reject the sacrament of Confession and decide for yourself that you do not need to humble yourself before the Lord God Almighty and ask for His forgiveness? I pray for these people constantly. __________________ Lord, may all innocent victims of murder, especially abortion, be in your arms today.

#7     Jan 14, '13, 9:09 am

JRKH Forum Elder   Join Date: September 14, 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Posts: 18,744 Religion: Catholic Revert

Re: Thinking you will go to heaven even with mortal sin Quote: Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane Isn't this called "presumption?" To presume that God will have mercy on you even though you reject the sacrament of Confession and decide for yourself that you do not need to humble yourself before the Lord God Almighty and ask for His forgiveness? I pray for these people constantly. You beat me too it.... Even though the OP is very open ended and we certainly cannot address the many permutations of why people repeatedly commit the same sin, we can recognize "presumption" in this line from the OP: Their response to any conversation in this matter always ends up with them believing in God's infinite mercy and that He will understand why it was okay for them to commit the sin. (Emphasis mine) It is wonderful and good to believe in God's Mercy but it is not acceptable to think that committing sin is "...okay for them..." So perhaps ask them what they base this hope on? God may be infinitely merciful but he is also infinitely just...So - on what basis do they believe they can deliberately and repeatedly and unrepentantly offend God and expect God to forgive? Ask them to consider this...When we pray the Our Father we say "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." This idea is amplified in the Gospels Mt 6 says: 14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mt 7: says: "1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. So - if they expect God to be "infinitely merciful" with them - they must be infinitely merciful with others. Would they be willing to repeatedly forgive those who deliberately and repeatedly and unrepentantly offend them in grave matters? If they are honest...they will say no...there will come a point at which they cannot forgive...and would have to cut that person off from them permanently. So - the Bottom line becomes this. If they themselves are not infinitely merciful with others...how can they expect God to be infinitely merciful with them? Not sure if I expressed this too well - but I hope it helps some. Peace James